1840s Illinois Man,
Joseph Smith Jr.
Possible image of Joseph Smith wearing his jacket last drawn by Sutcliffe Maudsley, Navuoo Artist.
Sources:
1: https://juvenileinstructor.org/daguerreotype-of-joseph-smith-wearing-the-urim-and-thummim-caution-this-will-disturb-you/
2: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5922&context=etd
3: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1984/01/from-the-prophets-life-a-photo-essay?lang=eng
2:
1: https://juvenileinstructor.org/daguerreotype-of-joseph-smith-wearing-the-urim-and-thummim-caution-this-will-disturb-you/
2: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5922&context=etd
3: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1984/01/from-the-prophets-life-a-photo-essay?lang=eng
2:
Around 2016-now, I have been studying photos alleged to be of Joseph Smith Junior. One image, that I became particularly intrigued by, was not well liked by one contributor on the Juvenile Instructor Website, Jared T; oddly he quotes, word for word, what an ebay seller "G" states on his page, about an image he thinks could be of Joseph Smith Junior, the seller quoted (March, 30, 2009, The Juvenile Instructor),
"This photo comes from a album that had ‘Smith” ID’d photos in it…I then listed a photo of a very intense old man from Vermont who was noted in the album as ‘diviner’...I beginning to believe was Joseph Smith, so I listed the old man as Joseph Smith father in a reserve auction...The high bidder was a Mormon from CA and asked what I would sell it for? and I replied I would think about it, … He then begins buying the most expensive photos from my store ($20-$45 ea) and in 3 days racks up $500.00 +, so I gave in and sold him the photo… Now this photo I offer in this auction, gives me CHILLS when I looked at it & that ‘rod’ or ‘wand’ with its glowing orb! and that black indistinguishable ‘snake’ thing truly looks to be a “Urim and Thummim” if I ever saw one!!! So the reserve price is set on this strange, strange feature.
...all the photos in the album follow the Joseph Smith trail, some from Vermont (one is for sale right now my store, man with glasses, and I have been selling others at auction past 2 weeks) some really interesting ones from Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, & Illinois…
I have ...concluded this photograph IS HIGHLY PROBABLE (in view of all above) a photo of the Mormon founder Joseph Smith ...1
As I read the what Jared T quotes seller "G" as saying, I had a persistent thought, that these "mormon scholars" running this page and it's followings (many of whom DO work in the Church History Museum and have written books), were much too hasty to cut this ebay seller down, ignored likely provenance and possibly discouraged "G" enough to throw it in the trash, mainly for having bad grammar, statements of glowing orbs and such were not realistic, but having spoken to him, he doesn't come off as a liar, he has no bad reviews on ebay, he just is an avid collector that I will say, loves magic and that sort of thing! I talked to him and bought it from him, he is not a Latter-Day Saint, knows very little Church History. I don't see why someone with lack of knowledge History of the Church of Jesus Christ, who says the word "witch" instead of "which" cannot possibly found a real Smith Family Photo Album, with a photograph of a famous Religious Leader named Joseph Smith. Oh, and it DOES have provenance. The seller, I can say, had hundreds of legitimate old photographs, many with the last name Smith, but only two were left in '17 that he said were in that "Smith Family Photo Album" (I bought one, that possibly may be a son in law's uncle, who married Alexander Smith's daughter... but I don't know for sure!). The rest of the images SEEM to have been bought by a LDS in California, that I do NOT know, but would like to! ;D
I was just an innocent bystander, interested in just doing a drawing/painting of Joseph Smith, excited like the rest, as I didn't know how to analyze photographs professionally, but I didn't study art my whole life and in College at BYU-Idaho.
I compared the alleged images of Joseph Smith- visually to the death mask of Joseph Smith and could see amazing similarities between ebay seller "G"'s "probable photograph of Joseph Smith", such as a heavy left eyelid, sunken in right, fuller right eyebrow, thinner straight left eyebrow, a scar coming from the left eye (seen on the mask and almost EVERY SINGLE painting or drawing of Joseph Smith!), a round protruding chin, a slight dent in the chin. 2017, I began to really believe this to be the image of Joseph, made a few youtube videos and emailed anyone I could to find the seller and did by the Fall. The seller alleged the image was a copy from a daguerreotype, in a Smith Family Album, onto a CDV.
Once I held the image in my hands, I began a process of authentication. The FIRST step, according to websites, was to see if he matched clothing style Joseph wore, when photography existed, and before Joseph Smith died, a five year time span (1839-1844). Judging by artwork done, by Sutcliffe Maudsley, I would state that my image was done very late in his life, I see a receded hairline on the death mask of Joseph, as in my image. I noticed that the popped down collar was just barely coming into style, as early as BEFORE Joseph Smith Sr. died (as his painting depicts a similar collar). I found an image of Lincoln in 1846 that matched, in style; later images of Lincoln show a lower and thicker collar, the 1840s very high, thin collar was a winner for the time period of 1840s.
Men could have worn 1840s style into the 1850s, ESPECIALLY if they were Mormon Pioneers running away from mobs in the late 1840s... they wouldn't be up to date... so seeing Parley P. Pratt in the 1850s wearing the higher, similar looking collar, means little in trying to disprove my image. See my CDV compared to Lincoln's 1846 image, below, and lastly is a painting of Joseph Smith Senior, who actually died in 1840, and was painted with a similar collar and double wrapped silk scarf.
"This photo comes from a album that had ‘Smith” ID’d photos in it…I then listed a photo of a very intense old man from Vermont who was noted in the album as ‘diviner’...I beginning to believe was Joseph Smith, so I listed the old man as Joseph Smith father in a reserve auction...The high bidder was a Mormon from CA and asked what I would sell it for? and I replied I would think about it, … He then begins buying the most expensive photos from my store ($20-$45 ea) and in 3 days racks up $500.00 +, so I gave in and sold him the photo… Now this photo I offer in this auction, gives me CHILLS when I looked at it & that ‘rod’ or ‘wand’ with its glowing orb! and that black indistinguishable ‘snake’ thing truly looks to be a “Urim and Thummim” if I ever saw one!!! So the reserve price is set on this strange, strange feature.
...all the photos in the album follow the Joseph Smith trail, some from Vermont (one is for sale right now my store, man with glasses, and I have been selling others at auction past 2 weeks) some really interesting ones from Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, & Illinois…
I have ...concluded this photograph IS HIGHLY PROBABLE (in view of all above) a photo of the Mormon founder Joseph Smith ...1
As I read the what Jared T quotes seller "G" as saying, I had a persistent thought, that these "mormon scholars" running this page and it's followings (many of whom DO work in the Church History Museum and have written books), were much too hasty to cut this ebay seller down, ignored likely provenance and possibly discouraged "G" enough to throw it in the trash, mainly for having bad grammar, statements of glowing orbs and such were not realistic, but having spoken to him, he doesn't come off as a liar, he has no bad reviews on ebay, he just is an avid collector that I will say, loves magic and that sort of thing! I talked to him and bought it from him, he is not a Latter-Day Saint, knows very little Church History. I don't see why someone with lack of knowledge History of the Church of Jesus Christ, who says the word "witch" instead of "which" cannot possibly found a real Smith Family Photo Album, with a photograph of a famous Religious Leader named Joseph Smith. Oh, and it DOES have provenance. The seller, I can say, had hundreds of legitimate old photographs, many with the last name Smith, but only two were left in '17 that he said were in that "Smith Family Photo Album" (I bought one, that possibly may be a son in law's uncle, who married Alexander Smith's daughter... but I don't know for sure!). The rest of the images SEEM to have been bought by a LDS in California, that I do NOT know, but would like to! ;D
I was just an innocent bystander, interested in just doing a drawing/painting of Joseph Smith, excited like the rest, as I didn't know how to analyze photographs professionally, but I didn't study art my whole life and in College at BYU-Idaho.
I compared the alleged images of Joseph Smith- visually to the death mask of Joseph Smith and could see amazing similarities between ebay seller "G"'s "probable photograph of Joseph Smith", such as a heavy left eyelid, sunken in right, fuller right eyebrow, thinner straight left eyebrow, a scar coming from the left eye (seen on the mask and almost EVERY SINGLE painting or drawing of Joseph Smith!), a round protruding chin, a slight dent in the chin. 2017, I began to really believe this to be the image of Joseph, made a few youtube videos and emailed anyone I could to find the seller and did by the Fall. The seller alleged the image was a copy from a daguerreotype, in a Smith Family Album, onto a CDV.
Once I held the image in my hands, I began a process of authentication. The FIRST step, according to websites, was to see if he matched clothing style Joseph wore, when photography existed, and before Joseph Smith died, a five year time span (1839-1844). Judging by artwork done, by Sutcliffe Maudsley, I would state that my image was done very late in his life, I see a receded hairline on the death mask of Joseph, as in my image. I noticed that the popped down collar was just barely coming into style, as early as BEFORE Joseph Smith Sr. died (as his painting depicts a similar collar). I found an image of Lincoln in 1846 that matched, in style; later images of Lincoln show a lower and thicker collar, the 1840s very high, thin collar was a winner for the time period of 1840s.
Men could have worn 1840s style into the 1850s, ESPECIALLY if they were Mormon Pioneers running away from mobs in the late 1840s... they wouldn't be up to date... so seeing Parley P. Pratt in the 1850s wearing the higher, similar looking collar, means little in trying to disprove my image. See my CDV compared to Lincoln's 1846 image, below, and lastly is a painting of Joseph Smith Senior, who actually died in 1840, and was painted with a similar collar and double wrapped silk scarf.
Figure 3 Carte-de-Viste of an 1840s Illinois Man, from a Smith Family Photo Album. Contrast upped to show he is wearing a silk like scarf, wrapped more than once and a collar popped down, all the up to his jaw.
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Figure 4 Abraham Lincoln 1846, wearing a scarf, double wrapped and a collar all the way up to his jaw.
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Below you can see Lincoln in later 1850s, then 1860s, his collar is much lower, he has a starched bowtie, that is NOT the 1840s soft scarf anymore.
My page on clothing styles of the 1840s:
https://www.plausiblephotographofjosephsmithjunior.com/clothing-of-the-1840s.html
My page on clothing styles of the 1840s:
https://www.plausiblephotographofjosephsmithjunior.com/clothing-of-the-1840s.html
Figure 5 Abraham Lincoln 1854. his tie is modern, not a scarf, not double wrapped and his collar is inches below his jaw.
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Abraham Lincoln 1857, clearly scarves double wrapped were not in style in the 1850s, collar is very low.
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Abraham Lincoln 1864; his tie is still like modern ties today, not a scarf, collar is low and his neck is exposed.
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I found a matching vest in a 1984 Ensign article (which I saw in person this year at the Pioneer Memorial Museum). 3
The lapel, of the jacket of 1840s Illinois Man is simple notched with a darker upper, I saw similar style jacket with the simple notched lapel in Sutcliffe Maudsley's drawing of Joseph Smith, called “The Two Martyrs” (he drew Joseph from life). Image of 1840s Illinois man below, stare at the right lapel (his left) to see how much darker the upper portion is and how similar it is to the drawing done by Maudsley, of Joseph later in his life.
The lapel, of the jacket of 1840s Illinois Man is simple notched with a darker upper, I saw similar style jacket with the simple notched lapel in Sutcliffe Maudsley's drawing of Joseph Smith, called “The Two Martyrs” (he drew Joseph from life). Image of 1840s Illinois man below, stare at the right lapel (his left) to see how much darker the upper portion is and how similar it is to the drawing done by Maudsley, of Joseph later in his life.
Figure 8 "The Two Martyrs" by, Sutcliffe Maudsley
Finding out that my image was a CDV at first meant that it could not be what Joseph Smith III talked about, in a very well known letter he wrote, because it was paper and not a daguerreotype, but in studying history of photography it could be either a reprint from a paper photograph (calotype process was around years before Joseph Smith died), or a reprint from a daguerreotype (Emma Smith's CDV...). The reason people are actually looking for a photograph of Joseph Smith, is because, his son Joseph Smith III said to the Salt Lake Tribune, March 20, 1910:
"I do regret the statement made, that there is no authentic picture of my father in existence, for this is a mistake... visit the capitol of Iowa, [you] will find a duplicate oil painting of Joseph Smith in one of the halls...
There is an authentic oil painting... at Independence, Mo... this portrait... is sustained in it's characteristic likeness to my father by the daguerreotype in our possession, taken the same year, I think, by an artist by the name of Lucian Foster...
Mr. Ramsey... the expression about the lower part of the face, taken from the death mask, which I saw... gives too full prominence to the lips and chin... I am enclosing a photograph taken from the oil painting referred to.
Yours truly,
Joseph Smith..." 2
We find Joseph Smith III countering claims of there not being a photograph of Joseph Smith, I believe one historian told me, in an email, came from John Taylor, as he was trying to get a realistic bust done of Joseph, in England- said that he didn't personally know of a photograph of Joseph Smith. This statement appears to have been quoted, in the Salt Lake Tribune, angering Joseph Smith III and debunked by him in 1910. Some Utahns argue that they believe J.S. III lied about his father's plural marriages in the 1800s, so of course he would LIE about having a daguerreotype of his father. The eldest son, of Joseph Smith and Emma, states that he has a daguerreotype of his father, Joseph Smith Jr. (or Sr. if you read statements after J.S. Sr. died, note- sometimes J.S. III called himself Joseph Smith Jr...), by Lucian Foster.
Lucian Foster was on Joseph Smith's Presidential Campaign in May 1844. His statement checks out in my opinion and if you see my page About the Photographer, you will see how similar Emma's 1845 daguerreotype, maybe also done by Foster, same background (reprinted on to a CDV) matches my CDV, from a Smith Family Photo Album.
https://www.plausiblephotographofjosephsmithjunior.com/the-photographer.html
"I do regret the statement made, that there is no authentic picture of my father in existence, for this is a mistake... visit the capitol of Iowa, [you] will find a duplicate oil painting of Joseph Smith in one of the halls...
There is an authentic oil painting... at Independence, Mo... this portrait... is sustained in it's characteristic likeness to my father by the daguerreotype in our possession, taken the same year, I think, by an artist by the name of Lucian Foster...
Mr. Ramsey... the expression about the lower part of the face, taken from the death mask, which I saw... gives too full prominence to the lips and chin... I am enclosing a photograph taken from the oil painting referred to.
Yours truly,
Joseph Smith..." 2
We find Joseph Smith III countering claims of there not being a photograph of Joseph Smith, I believe one historian told me, in an email, came from John Taylor, as he was trying to get a realistic bust done of Joseph, in England- said that he didn't personally know of a photograph of Joseph Smith. This statement appears to have been quoted, in the Salt Lake Tribune, angering Joseph Smith III and debunked by him in 1910. Some Utahns argue that they believe J.S. III lied about his father's plural marriages in the 1800s, so of course he would LIE about having a daguerreotype of his father. The eldest son, of Joseph Smith and Emma, states that he has a daguerreotype of his father, Joseph Smith Jr. (or Sr. if you read statements after J.S. Sr. died, note- sometimes J.S. III called himself Joseph Smith Jr...), by Lucian Foster.
Lucian Foster was on Joseph Smith's Presidential Campaign in May 1844. His statement checks out in my opinion and if you see my page About the Photographer, you will see how similar Emma's 1845 daguerreotype, maybe also done by Foster, same background (reprinted on to a CDV) matches my CDV, from a Smith Family Photo Album.
https://www.plausiblephotographofjosephsmithjunior.com/the-photographer.html
Joseph Smith III had a stunted relationship with Brigham Young, refusing to move to Utah, he eventually left Nauvoo, Illinois (where Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints last resided before their mass exodus to Utah in 1846 (2 years after Joseph Smith died)), moving to Plano, Illinois in 1866, intent on restoring his Father's faith, because he believed his dad didn't live polygamy. Brigham told Alexander and David Smith, in the 1860s, that Emma Smith stole pictures of their mother. Brigham was known to be upset that Emma Smith would not let him have the JST Documents, but in 1866, Emma Smith let go of the JST, and possibly other items, to JS III.
Emma traveled to Plano in the 1866. This is where things get interesting- the photographic artist, seen above, on the back of my CDV, lived near J.S. III for 2 decades, and the one and only Joseph Slocum Bibbins grew up in Pennsylvania (Emma Smith was from Pennsylvania), moved to Newark, Illinois in 1838, and his Father Elisha Bibbins is in her family History, noted as having taught her personally. Not only is there a personal connection, but where my photographic artist lived, was spot on... I am not sure at what point, but Bibbins moved to Plano, as he is listed as having died there on Kendall County Records. See my page "The Photographer" to see his detailed ancestry storyline.
If Emma Smith was going to give up the JST, the earliest known Daguerreotype of her (which was reprinted in the 1860s, by Julia Murdock Smith in Missouri, onto a very similar looking CDV), sometime in the 1860s would I theorize Emma also let go of her husband's daguerreotype, to get it reprinted... I had a recent discovery, in talking to someone from the Community of Christ, that the CDV of Emma Smith, originally said by her daughter Julia- to be of baby David Hyrum Smith (born in 1844, so likely it is an 1845 image of a 40 yo Emma), is a reprint from a daguerreotype; the daguerreotype is badly oxidized and damaged, leading me to believe, that although JS III had the daguerreotype, by the time Emma Smith died in 1870s, he was hard pressed to get a good copy of it, as it was likely just as damaged as his mother's 1845 Daguerreotype. To me, this recent discovery answers a lot of questions, but supports the fact that a Daguerreotype could be reprinted on to a CDV, even pretty clearly, but the act of taken it out of it's case, to be able to reprint it- is more than likely going to destroy it.
LDS Scholars point out, that there are MANY photographs of the "painting", now owned and displayed by the Community of Christ, one of which has a more narrow face and has been copyrighted. Some are different, show a broken, nose, scars... and I believe the reason is the statement I will again quote,
"visit the capitol of Iowa, [you] will find a duplicate oil painting of Joseph Smith in one of the halls... There is an authentic oil painting... at Independence, Mo... this portrait... is sustained in it's characteristic likeness to my father by the daguerreotype..."
J.S. III implies the paintings are being repainted, in my opinion, as "sustained" is an action word. No where, however, does he state that the painting was originally painted using the daguerreotype, I think the "duplicate oil painting" would explain images, like Kim Marshall's, that show MORE scars and a broken nose (maybe he commissioned his own brother David Hyrum to paint it?!).
If the 1843 painting was accurate, I ask why Sutcliffe Maudsley drew Joseph Smith Jr. with LESS hair in 1842, a year PRIOR? I believe the artist took "artistic liberties", or it just wasn't done in 1843 (JS III was ages 10-11 in 1843 I doubt his knew every detail of his Father's life). The bouffant hairstyle could not have been executed in 1843, by judging fairly raw paintings by Maudsley, as in 1842 Joseph has a receding hairline and very thin hair that is brushed forward, not up and back (like the RLDS painting), just simply not the same hairline as seen in the painting owned by his son.
Bottom Left is an 1842 painting of Joseph Smith, done from life, and below middle is the painting owned by the Community of Christ, said to have been painted in 1843 and "sustained" over time. The bottom right image was copyrighted by J.S. III in 1879.
Emma traveled to Plano in the 1866. This is where things get interesting- the photographic artist, seen above, on the back of my CDV, lived near J.S. III for 2 decades, and the one and only Joseph Slocum Bibbins grew up in Pennsylvania (Emma Smith was from Pennsylvania), moved to Newark, Illinois in 1838, and his Father Elisha Bibbins is in her family History, noted as having taught her personally. Not only is there a personal connection, but where my photographic artist lived, was spot on... I am not sure at what point, but Bibbins moved to Plano, as he is listed as having died there on Kendall County Records. See my page "The Photographer" to see his detailed ancestry storyline.
If Emma Smith was going to give up the JST, the earliest known Daguerreotype of her (which was reprinted in the 1860s, by Julia Murdock Smith in Missouri, onto a very similar looking CDV), sometime in the 1860s would I theorize Emma also let go of her husband's daguerreotype, to get it reprinted... I had a recent discovery, in talking to someone from the Community of Christ, that the CDV of Emma Smith, originally said by her daughter Julia- to be of baby David Hyrum Smith (born in 1844, so likely it is an 1845 image of a 40 yo Emma), is a reprint from a daguerreotype; the daguerreotype is badly oxidized and damaged, leading me to believe, that although JS III had the daguerreotype, by the time Emma Smith died in 1870s, he was hard pressed to get a good copy of it, as it was likely just as damaged as his mother's 1845 Daguerreotype. To me, this recent discovery answers a lot of questions, but supports the fact that a Daguerreotype could be reprinted on to a CDV, even pretty clearly, but the act of taken it out of it's case, to be able to reprint it- is more than likely going to destroy it.
LDS Scholars point out, that there are MANY photographs of the "painting", now owned and displayed by the Community of Christ, one of which has a more narrow face and has been copyrighted. Some are different, show a broken, nose, scars... and I believe the reason is the statement I will again quote,
"visit the capitol of Iowa, [you] will find a duplicate oil painting of Joseph Smith in one of the halls... There is an authentic oil painting... at Independence, Mo... this portrait... is sustained in it's characteristic likeness to my father by the daguerreotype..."
J.S. III implies the paintings are being repainted, in my opinion, as "sustained" is an action word. No where, however, does he state that the painting was originally painted using the daguerreotype, I think the "duplicate oil painting" would explain images, like Kim Marshall's, that show MORE scars and a broken nose (maybe he commissioned his own brother David Hyrum to paint it?!).
If the 1843 painting was accurate, I ask why Sutcliffe Maudsley drew Joseph Smith Jr. with LESS hair in 1842, a year PRIOR? I believe the artist took "artistic liberties", or it just wasn't done in 1843 (JS III was ages 10-11 in 1843 I doubt his knew every detail of his Father's life). The bouffant hairstyle could not have been executed in 1843, by judging fairly raw paintings by Maudsley, as in 1842 Joseph has a receding hairline and very thin hair that is brushed forward, not up and back (like the RLDS painting), just simply not the same hairline as seen in the painting owned by his son.
Bottom Left is an 1842 painting of Joseph Smith, done from life, and below middle is the painting owned by the Community of Christ, said to have been painted in 1843 and "sustained" over time. The bottom right image was copyrighted by J.S. III in 1879.
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The Spiritus "younger Joseph Smith" is not something I own, I do not converse with the owners of that image and know nothing more than those who follow their youtube page. I no longer feel as strongly as I used to, that there were two photographs of Joseph Smith. I think the RLDS painting was done from life and as Joseph's descendants say the artist called Joseph "scarrified" and yet we see no scars, much earlier than 1843 (1842 he had much less hair than in the RLDS painting), Daguerreotypes that are reprinted get very damaged in the process (evidenced by Emma Smith's daguerreotype holding David, which I cannot post here for legal reasons); he wasn't intent on making a raw or terribly accurate product. J.S. III went on to "sustain" the likeness, in the paintings, as in- editing them, to look more and more like the "real Joseph"- using my CDV's original Daguerreotype, but of course I don't have that daguerreotype, but suffice to say, it is plausible that my CDV was a reprint from the daguerreotype, just head on over to the Community of Christ Library in Independence Missouri to see Emma's damaged daguerreotype :)
Wel